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	<title>Comments on: Democracy Promotion and Islam &#8212; Part II</title>
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	<description>A Candid Blog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Swaraaj Chauhan</title>
		<link>http://www.pkhope.com/democracy-promotion-and-islam-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-182109</link>
		<dc:creator>Swaraaj Chauhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pakspectator.com/?p=6015#comment-182109</guid>
		<description>This is a thought-provoking article by Prof Michael Brenner. I have already made certain observations elsewhere on Brenner's first article on the subject of Islam and Democracy.

However, if the line of argument presented in the article above is a reflection of the thought processes of the intellectual and ruling classes in the USA, then there is a definite cause for alarm.

Prof Brenner states (ominously): &lt;em&gt;"Obama will enter the White House with wide popular support and goodwill.  &lt;strong&gt;He will have no specific mandate, though.&lt;/strong&gt;  His popularity will be based mainly on his personality and his being non-Bush.  On foreign policy, the dispositions of public opinion are clear:  &lt;strong&gt;do something to end the Iraq imbroglio but don’t do anything that embarrasses the U.S.&lt;/strong&gt;; pursue a more multilateral tack but &lt;strong&gt;don’t forget American exceptionalism and safeguard our right to take action as we see fit&lt;/strong&gt;; steer clear of open-ended nation-building projects, except where they create bulwarks against terrorists – e.g. Afghanistan; spent less money abroad, we need it at home; make us popular in the world again.  Not much guidance there on how to untangle multiple, intersecting dilemmas in the Greater Middle East.)&lt;/em&gt;

Let me take these arguments one by one. Obama &lt;strong&gt;has a clear mandate&lt;/strong&gt; of the American people to get the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan, whether it causes embarrassment to the USA or not. 

I do not understand what is meant by keeping America's prestige intact while at the same time sacrificing the lives of the US and allied troops, as also the innocent local civilian populations, in an unending war.

Again, how is it possible to indulge in &lt;strong&gt;multilaterlism,&lt;/strong&gt; and at the same time expecting the USA to continue to exercise "exceptionalism and safeguard our right to take action as we see fit.") 

I am afraid this line of thinking is either borne out of naivete or a continuation of the Bush double-speak. So where is the CHANGE from the Bush era?

Let us be clear on this issue. The cardinal rule of multilateralism in foreign policy is a sincere desire to evolve a consensus, and then abide by that consensus.

The tone and tenor of the article above seems to be based on an assumption that the people living outside the USA are either morons or half barbaric. Such people, so the argument seems to go, need to be civilized by introducing "democracy" in these countries. 

This obsession with introducing "democracy" (at selective places?) has become a modern-day evangelical crusade comparable to the missionary zeal of the colonial era to introduce Christianity to "civilize" the subject races. 

I repeat that if the USA wishes to survive the follies committed during the past eight years of the Bush era, the ruling and the intellectual class should realise by now that Afghanistan has been the graveyard of many ambitious rulers in the past centuries. Even the Soviet Union collapsed after its misadventure in Afghanistan.

It is time that arrogance, avarice and greed (which was the hallmark of the Bush administration) should be replaced with a sincere effort to rebuild the US economy and bring peace to the world. The USA which once provided inspiration to newly independent countries, is now in deep trouble itself because of the questionable and dangerous policies of its leaders. 

Obama administration has so far not offered a plan, or made a visible attempt, to reach out to the leadership in Europe, Asia or the Middle East to sort out the intractable problems that threaten world peace, stability and economy. 

It will be a great pity if Obama loses this grand opportunity to bring about a real CHANGE while  riding at the crest of the immense popularity that he still enjoys worldwide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a thought-provoking article by Prof Michael Brenner. I have already made certain observations elsewhere on Brenner&#8217;s first article on the subject of Islam and Democracy.</p>
<p>However, if the line of argument presented in the article above is a reflection of the thought processes of the intellectual and ruling classes in the USA, then there is a definite cause for alarm.</p>
<p>Prof Brenner states (ominously): <em>&#8220;Obama will enter the White House with wide popular support and goodwill.  <strong>He will have no specific mandate, though.</strong>  His popularity will be based mainly on his personality and his being non-Bush.  On foreign policy, the dispositions of public opinion are clear:  <strong>do something to end the Iraq imbroglio but don’t do anything that embarrasses the U.S.</strong>; pursue a more multilateral tack but <strong>don’t forget American exceptionalism and safeguard our right to take action as we see fit</strong>; steer clear of open-ended nation-building projects, except where they create bulwarks against terrorists – e.g. Afghanistan; spent less money abroad, we need it at home; make us popular in the world again.  Not much guidance there on how to untangle multiple, intersecting dilemmas in the Greater Middle East.)</em></p>
<p>Let me take these arguments one by one. Obama <strong>has a clear mandate</strong> of the American people to get the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan, whether it causes embarrassment to the USA or not. </p>
<p>I do not understand what is meant by keeping America&#8217;s prestige intact while at the same time sacrificing the lives of the US and allied troops, as also the innocent local civilian populations, in an unending war.</p>
<p>Again, how is it possible to indulge in <strong>multilaterlism,</strong> and at the same time expecting the USA to continue to exercise &#8220;exceptionalism and safeguard our right to take action as we see fit.&#8221;) </p>
<p>I am afraid this line of thinking is either borne out of naivete or a continuation of the Bush double-speak. So where is the CHANGE from the Bush era?</p>
<p>Let us be clear on this issue. The cardinal rule of multilateralism in foreign policy is a sincere desire to evolve a consensus, and then abide by that consensus.</p>
<p>The tone and tenor of the article above seems to be based on an assumption that the people living outside the USA are either morons or half barbaric. Such people, so the argument seems to go, need to be civilized by introducing &#8220;democracy&#8221; in these countries. </p>
<p>This obsession with introducing &#8220;democracy&#8221; (at selective places?) has become a modern-day evangelical crusade comparable to the missionary zeal of the colonial era to introduce Christianity to &#8220;civilize&#8221; the subject races. </p>
<p>I repeat that if the USA wishes to survive the follies committed during the past eight years of the Bush era, the ruling and the intellectual class should realise by now that Afghanistan has been the graveyard of many ambitious rulers in the past centuries. Even the Soviet Union collapsed after its misadventure in Afghanistan.</p>
<p>It is time that arrogance, avarice and greed (which was the hallmark of the Bush administration) should be replaced with a sincere effort to rebuild the US economy and bring peace to the world. The USA which once provided inspiration to newly independent countries, is now in deep trouble itself because of the questionable and dangerous policies of its leaders. </p>
<p>Obama administration has so far not offered a plan, or made a visible attempt, to reach out to the leadership in Europe, Asia or the Middle East to sort out the intractable problems that threaten world peace, stability and economy. </p>
<p>It will be a great pity if Obama loses this grand opportunity to bring about a real CHANGE while  riding at the crest of the immense popularity that he still enjoys worldwide.</p>
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		<title>By: Arias</title>
		<link>http://www.pkhope.com/democracy-promotion-and-islam-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-171273</link>
		<dc:creator>Arias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pakspectator.com/?p=6015#comment-171273</guid>
		<description>Johanny boy !

kia baat hai........
bush pe bara piyar aa raha hai! 
(trans:whats the matter ... you are being very affectionate towards bush!)

3000 amerians died in 9/11
4200 amricans died in US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and still counting, and  not to mention the Natives who died, a few hunderd thousands of them

with defenders like bush, who needs terrorists,

so johanny boy shut your big bloody mouth and dont favour bush just for the sake of making pakistan and afghanistan look bad, you are only making a fool out of yourself

the monkey king bush himself is saying that the wars were mistake, then why are you defending him,tu aaunda mama gada ai?(trans:are you his uncle?) may be there is a relation between you and bush, the two of you belong to the mindless species who cannot think before they speak
coz
johanny boy you have time again shown that you speak without thinking, and your nephew bush .....well the less spoken about him the better

pity on you both of you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johanny boy !</p>
<p>kia baat hai&#8230;&#8230;..<br />
bush pe bara piyar aa raha hai!<br />
(trans:whats the matter &#8230; you are being very affectionate towards bush!)</p>
<p>3000 amerians died in 9/11<br />
4200 amricans died in US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and still counting, and  not to mention the Natives who died, a few hunderd thousands of them</p>
<p>with defenders like bush, who needs terrorists,</p>
<p>so johanny boy shut your big bloody mouth and dont favour bush just for the sake of making pakistan and afghanistan look bad, you are only making a fool out of yourself</p>
<p>the monkey king bush himself is saying that the wars were mistake, then why are you defending him,tu aaunda mama gada ai?(trans:are you his uncle?) may be there is a relation between you and bush, the two of you belong to the mindless species who cannot think before they speak<br />
coz<br />
johanny boy you have time again shown that you speak without thinking, and your nephew bush &#8230;..well the less spoken about him the better</p>
<p>pity on you both of you</p>
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		<title>By: Johann</title>
		<link>http://www.pkhope.com/democracy-promotion-and-islam-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-170631</link>
		<dc:creator>Johann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pakspectator.com/?p=6015#comment-170631</guid>
		<description>Sir,
Why when you talk about ISLAM AND DEMOCRACY, you conveniently forget the recent case of BANGLADESH WHERE THE POOREST OF POOR HAVE SHOWN maturity and wisdom when the barrel of Gun was not over their head.
Same is the case with Indian administered Kashmir where when people are given freedom from fear, they have exercised their vote wisely much to the chagrin of western and indian chatteri class.
Why you are only talkiing about 400 years of King's rule in Middleast? It is same in India,Europe and whole of Asia.But Islamic countries like Malaysia,Indonesia (Kingdoms once) took to democracy as ducks to water.
You as an AMERICAN HIDING THE LACK OF DEMOCRACY IN MIDDLEAST TO YOUR AS WELL AS EUROPES HUNGER FOR OIL..
 Just because Bush is out of office, one need not bash him, HE HAS SAVED THE AMERICAN MAINLAND FROM ANY ATTACK FROM TERRORISTS HAILING FROM AFGHANISTAN/PAKISTAN BORDER DURING HIS 8 YEARS OF RULE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sir,<br />
Why when you talk about ISLAM AND DEMOCRACY, you conveniently forget the recent case of BANGLADESH WHERE THE POOREST OF POOR HAVE SHOWN maturity and wisdom when the barrel of Gun was not over their head.<br />
Same is the case with Indian administered Kashmir where when people are given freedom from fear, they have exercised their vote wisely much to the chagrin of western and indian chatteri class.<br />
Why you are only talkiing about 400 years of King&#8217;s rule in Middleast? It is same in India,Europe and whole of Asia.But Islamic countries like Malaysia,Indonesia (Kingdoms once) took to democracy as ducks to water.<br />
You as an AMERICAN HIDING THE LACK OF DEMOCRACY IN MIDDLEAST TO YOUR AS WELL AS EUROPES HUNGER FOR OIL..<br />
 Just because Bush is out of office, one need not bash him, HE HAS SAVED THE AMERICAN MAINLAND FROM ANY ATTACK FROM TERRORISTS HAILING FROM AFGHANISTAN/PAKISTAN BORDER DURING HIS 8 YEARS OF RULE.</p>
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